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GofBorg
26-Oct-2012, 16:13
Happpy happy day day! Been running XP at home since
forever. Gotta love Win8 Pro for $40!

Anders Gustafsson
26-Oct-2012, 17:18
GofBorg,
> Happpy happy day day! Been running XP at home since
> forever. Gotta love Win8 Pro for $40!

Good at last a lonely brave soul that can betatest the nev Novell
client :)

--
Anders Gustafsson (NKP)
The Aaland Islands (N60 E20)

Have an idea for a product enhancement? Please visit:
http://www.novell.com/rms

GofBorg
26-Oct-2012, 19:04
> Good at last a lonely brave soul that can betatest the nev Novell
> client :)

LOL, well it'll be my home machine so no...
BUT, I have been using the dev edition of Win8 in
a VM here at work with the Novell client and seems
to work a treat...even with my Legacy Netware 6.5 server.

kgroneman
26-Oct-2012, 19:24
Hey Anders Gustafsson,

>Good at last a lonely brave soul

My son, a computer engineer and linux geek has had to run it for some
work projects. He says it takes a little getting used to, but once you
do, it's not a bad OS.

--
Kim - 10/26/2012 12:23:30 PM

Joseph Marton
26-Oct-2012, 19:38
GofBorg wrote:

> Happpy happy day day! Been running XP at home since
> forever. Gotta love Win8 Pro for $40!

I bought it as well today. Now I'm just debating... do I go ahead and
try upgrading my Win7 machine or not? Hmmmmm...

--
Does this washcloth smell like chloroform?

Joseph Marton
26-Oct-2012, 19:40
kgroneman wrote:

> My son, a computer engineer and linux geek has had to run it for some
> work projects. He says it takes a little getting used to, but once you
> do, it's not a bad OS.

What a rave review.

"Windows 8: It's not bad."

As soon as I install it I'll be turning off as much Windows 8 UI stuff
as I can. I heard Samsung has an app to bring back the old start menu
to Windows 8.

--
Does this washcloth smell like chloroform?

kgroneman
26-Oct-2012, 19:40
Hey Joseph Marton,

>Now I'm just debating... do I go ahead and
>try upgrading my Win7 machine or not?

Do it. I'll watch and THEN decide if that's what I wanna do.

--
Kim - 10/26/2012 12:40:24 PM

GofBorg
26-Oct-2012, 19:51
> "Windows 8: It's not bad."

LOL! I love it.

You have to think of the 'metro' portion as the start menu,
once you get past that it all seems to work. However, all the
flipping between 'desktop apps' and metro start menu is dizzying.
They need a less flamboyant effect. I think someone fell in love
with compiz/kwin and said 'Hey we need this!'..actually, you don't.

Paullamontagne
26-Oct-2012, 19:56
>
>> Happpy happy day day! Been running XP at home since
>> forever. Gotta love Win8 Pro for $40!
>
> I bought it as well today. Now I'm just debating... do I go ahead and
> try upgrading my Win7 machine or not? Hmmmmm...


That's what vmware is for.. :-)

--
Paul

ab
26-Oct-2012, 20:09
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Hash: SHA1

>> "Windows 8: It's not bad."
>
> LOL! I love it.

Considering how windows has been in the past:

http://www.searchenginejournal.com/microsofts-500-million-vista-marketing-campaign/4339/

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2286065,00.asp

"It's not bad" may be all they can hope for in this case. I've seen
some fun sites showing the good/bad/good/bad release cycle.

http://orclev.tumblr.com/post/18555141412/why-windows-8-will-suck

By most accounts windows seven is better than worse (or at least better
than vista)... so that makes windows eight here just in time for the
"bad" side. Guess I'll wait for the next one.

Good luck.
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Joseph Marton
26-Oct-2012, 20:46
GofBorg wrote:

> You have to think of the 'metro' portion

Hey! Be careful, in a moment you'll have helicopters flying over head
and guys in black suits at your door. It's "Windows 8 UI" not "Metro."

--
Does this washcloth smell like chloroform?

GofBorg
26-Oct-2012, 20:58
Oh right, the 'interface formerly known as Metro'.
Maybe they'll just try using a symbol for it?

"Windows 8! With the new ~|~ interface!"

Joseph Marton
26-Oct-2012, 21:26
GofBorg wrote:

> Gotta love Win8 Pro for $40!

Don't forget your free Windows 8 Media Center Pack add-on.

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows-8/feature-packs

--
Does this washcloth smell like chloroform?

George
27-Oct-2012, 14:39
On 10/26/2012 2:24 PM, kgroneman wrote:
> Hey Anders Gustafsson,
>
>> Good at last a lonely brave soul
>
> My son, a computer engineer and linux geek has had to run it for some
> work projects. He says it takes a little getting used to, but once you
> do, it's not a bad OS.
>

The main thing that drives me nuts is that it was totally designed for
tablets (touch). Especially since server 2012 shares the same code as
Win8. It needs a really easy way to disable "charms" etc and substitute
a more usable interface for non-touch screen users.

George
27-Oct-2012, 14:40
On 10/26/2012 2:51 PM, GofBorg wrote:
>
>> "Windows 8: It's not bad."
>
> LOL! I love it.
>
> You have to think of the 'metro' portion as the start menu,
> once you get past that it all seems to work. However, all the
> flipping between 'desktop apps' and metro start menu is dizzying.
> They need a less flamboyant effect. I think someone fell in love
> with compiz/kwin and said 'Hey we need this!'..actually, you don't.
>
>
>
>
I can see where it is spiffy if you have a touch device but it is really
clunky if you don't. And even more clunky if you are using a touch UI to
manage your server 2012 box.

George
27-Oct-2012, 14:43
On 10/26/2012 2:56 PM, Paul Lamontagne wrote:
> >
>>> Happpy happy day day! Been running XP at home since
>>> forever. Gotta love Win8 Pro for $40!
>>
>> I bought it as well today. Now I'm just debating... do I go ahead and
>> try upgrading my Win7 machine or not? Hmmmmm...
>
>
> That's what vmware is for.. :-)
>

For sure. But dual boot also works My notebook runs Win7 but I have VHDs
attached so I can boot into server 2012 to play with Hyper-V running
natively.

Joseph Marton
27-Oct-2012, 14:53
George wrote:

> The main thing that drives me nuts is that it was totally designed
> for tablets (touch).

Yup. I can see having the same codebase across all types of devices.
It's definitely an interesting concept. But you have to tweak the UI
for the different types of input, and touch on a tablet is much
different from keyboard & mouse on a desktop/laptop.

The most annoying part to me is just getting to the Windows 8
equivalent of "All Programs" in the old Windows 7 start menu. I
actually can't remember how I got to it yet but I've found it and not
only is it non-intuitive to find but it's also unwieldy to use. I know
I can just go to the new "start menu" (the live tiles home screen
thingy) and just start typing the name of an app, but I'm not sure just
how intuitive that is either.

--
Does this washcloth smell like chloroform?

Bob
27-Oct-2012, 18:33
In the future I just do not see the keyboard or mouse as being the most
efficient way to communicate with the computer. I believe OS architects
should consider this right now. I envision the transition for the user
will be much like the transition faced by people when they had to move
from reading scrolls to reading books.

Bob

On 10/26/2012 11:13 AM, GofBorg wrote:
> Happpy happy day day! Been running XP at home since
> forever. Gotta love Win8 Pro for $40!
>
>

Wallgames.com
28-Oct-2012, 03:35
"Bob" <RoNSbert@SchweinA_NS_.com> wrote in message
news:mVUis.154$_b1.130@kovat.provo.novell.com...
> In the future I just do not see the keyboard or mouse as being the most
> efficient way to communicate with the computer. I believe OS architects
> should consider this right now. I envision the transition for the user
> will be much like the transition faced by people when they had to move
> from reading scrolls to reading books.
>
> Bob
>
> On 10/26/2012 11:13 AM, GofBorg wrote:
>> Happpy happy day day! Been running XP at home since
>> forever. Gotta love Win8 Pro for $40!
>>
>>


Are you still reading books?!

Joseph Marton
28-Oct-2012, 06:39
Bob wrote:

> In the future I just do not see the keyboard or mouse as being the
> most efficient way to communicate with the computer. I believe OS
> architects should consider this right now. I envision the transition
> for the user will be much like the transition faced by people when
> they had to move from reading scrolls to reading books.

Ah, a keyboard. How quaint.

--
Does this washcloth smell like chloroform?

ab
29-Oct-2012, 14:43
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> Ah, a keyboard. How quaint.

And you wrote that with...................... what? Your voice
recognition software that is so wonderful we all use it? Your tablet
(oh a virtualized keyboard... that makes it so much better.....).

The problem with changing a primary way to interface with a computer is
that the keyboard is so stinkin' efficient. Has anybody here dictated
an entire letter (e-mail) to anybody? Was it a pleasant experience?
Did you speak at normal speed? Was your punctuation, expression of
*EXCITEMENT*, and anything else outside of single statements handled
perfectly? How about moving from simple things like conversations to
more serious things... like spreadsheets? Has anybody worked in a
spreadsheet using non-keyboards (and I mean physical or virtual
keyboards)? Presentations/Slideshows? Serious documents in some word
processing program with a single ordered list?

Now let's move on to serious system administration. When was the last
time somebody tried to edit a conf file, modify a registry key, restart
a service, check log events, or do anything else in the realm of "system
administration" without a keyboard? I suppose you can use a mouse to
access these parts of the system and read them, but reading isn't system
administration.

So we're stuck trying to either teach humans to work better with
computers (enter the keyboard) or computers to work better with humans
(enter voice recognition technology, or something else that works more
like we do). The former is backward-compatible, fairly fast, accurate
and precise, and ubiquitous even on devices that don't have a way to
plug them in... and the only thing we hate about them is that on devices
without a physical keyboard they're so blasted inefficient compared to
the real thing because (well, at least that's what I hate about them...
that and they cover up the screen when you use them). On the other
hand, voice-recognition technology has been anywhere from terrible to
pretty-bad for a couple of decades, and while in some cases it seems to
be getting better (like asking for driving directions, or looking up
people from my Android's address book), that isn't much like "real work"
either.

I think a better interface will probably come when computers are better
able to understand our language directly, and that'll happen about
thirty minutes before they replace us entirely, and then go back to
ignoring human language altogether because it's so blasted inefficient
compared to their normal ways of sharing information.

Good luck.
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Anders Gustafsson
29-Oct-2012, 15:14
Ab,
> And you wrote that with...................... what? Your voice
> recognition software that is so wonderful we all use it? Your tablet
> (oh a virtualized keyboard... that makes it so much better.....).

Just as an analogue wristwatch is more efficient than a digital one.

--
Anders Gustafsson (NKP)
The Aaland Islands (N60 E20)

Have an idea for a product enhancement? Please visit:
http://www.novell.com/rms

Joseph Marton
29-Oct-2012, 15:29
ab wrote:

> > Ah, a keyboard. How quaint.
>
> And you wrote that with...................... what? Your voice
> recognition software that is so wonderful we all use it? Your tablet
> (oh a virtualized keyboard... that makes it so much better.....).

Apparently someone didn't get the Star Trek IV reference...

--
Does this washcloth smell like chloroform?

George
29-Oct-2012, 15:30
On 10/29/2012 9:43 AM, ab wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
>> Ah, a keyboard. How quaint.
>
> And you wrote that with...................... what? Your voice
> recognition software that is so wonderful we all use it? Your tablet
> (oh a virtualized keyboard... that makes it so much better.....).
>
> The problem with changing a primary way to interface with a computer is
> that the keyboard is so stinkin' efficient. Has anybody here dictated
> an entire letter (e-mail) to anybody? Was it a pleasant experience?
> Did you speak at normal speed? Was your punctuation, expression of
> *EXCITEMENT*, and anything else outside of single statements handled
> perfectly? How about moving from simple things like conversations to
> more serious things... like spreadsheets? Has anybody worked in a
> spreadsheet using non-keyboards (and I mean physical or virtual
> keyboards)? Presentations/Slideshows? Serious documents in some word
> processing program with a single ordered list?
>
> Now let's move on to serious system administration. When was the last
> time somebody tried to edit a conf file, modify a registry key, restart
> a service, check log events, or do anything else in the realm of "system
> administration" without a keyboard? I suppose you can use a mouse to
> access these parts of the system and read them, but reading isn't system
> administration.
>
> So we're stuck trying to either teach humans to work better with
> computers (enter the keyboard) or computers to work better with humans
> (enter voice recognition technology, or something else that works more
> like we do). The former is backward-compatible, fairly fast, accurate
> and precise, and ubiquitous even on devices that don't have a way to
> plug them in... and the only thing we hate about them is that on devices
> without a physical keyboard they're so blasted inefficient compared to
> the real thing because (well, at least that's what I hate about them...
> that and they cover up the screen when you use them). On the other
> hand, voice-recognition technology has been anywhere from terrible to
> pretty-bad for a couple of decades, and while in some cases it seems to
> be getting better (like asking for driving directions, or looking up
> people from my Android's address book), that isn't much like "real work"
> either.
>
> I think a better interface will probably come when computers are better
> able to understand our language directly, and that'll happen about
> thirty minutes before they replace us entirely, and then go back to
> ignoring human language altogether because it's so blasted inefficient
> compared to their normal ways of sharing information.
>
> Good luck.

But you don't understand... None of us need to do anything like
spreadsheets, system management, coding etc anymore. We *ALL* just need
to be in "the cloud" using our ipads or whatever...

ab
29-Oct-2012, 16:15
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 10/29/2012 08:30 AM, George wrote:
> But you don't understand... None of us need to do anything like
> spreadsheets, system management, coding etc anymore. We *ALL* just
> need to be in "the cloud" using our ipads or whatever...

Now that is the truth; I just do not understand.

I would do the same thing, if only the lousy mortgage company, IRS, and
utilities stinkers didn't keep coming back demanding money. We
shouldn't need to pay these things; they are impeding my ability to live
the 21st Century American Dream of getting everything for nothing.
Curse reality!!!

Joe, you're right; I didn't get the reference. I'm afraid the old Star
Trek movies are too full of shatner for me to really appreciate them.

Good luck.
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kgroneman
29-Oct-2012, 16:48
Hey ab,

>I would do the same thing, if only the lousy mortgage company, IRS,
>and utilities stinkers didn't keep coming back demanding money.

And I still just shake my head at institutions that ask to have
something faxed to them. Fax machines and the people that run them
refuse to die.

--
Kim - 10/29/2012 9:47:08 AM

GofBorg
29-Oct-2012, 20:45
> I know
> I can just go to the new "start menu" (the live tiles home screen
> thingy) and just start typing the name of an app, but I'm not sure just
> how intuitive that is either.

I've seen numerous titanic debates about that in Linux as well.
Some folks are just fine with using the 'Run' dialog and the name of the
app. Problems arise when you don't know the name of the app, maybe you are
looking for an app that might let you do what you need that shipped with
the OS, but you aren't yet familiar with it. Does a person then resort to
Google, miraculously locate an app via some post and then know what to
search for? I mean app names are pretty much meaningless in themselves these
days, but that's another story. I agree the interface needs work and I'm not
sure how much effort they are making to drag the 'old desktop' users along.
Which is really a larger problem server side. They certainly have spent a
bit of thought on how to inegrate the Microsoft stores into it, which I
suppose is where the money is.

I worked with it over the weekend and it runs as fast as the WinXP it
replaced on my old P4D 1.8 processor with 2GB of memory. App compatibility
has been pretty good but I think video and sound drivers need more work. My
onboard sound has a case of the snap crackle and pops and I get video
slowdowns in some cases. I received my first updates on Sunday although
honestly I couldn't tell you what they were for, updating is apparently
'stealth mode' in Win8.

GofBorg
29-Oct-2012, 20:54
> Don't forget your free Windows 8 Media Center Pack add-on.
>
> http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows-8/feature-packs
>
Why do I need that?

GofBorg
29-Oct-2012, 20:55
> That's what vmware is for.. :-)

Sissy. Roll the dice baby! Risk your data!
Feel alive!

Joseph Marton
30-Oct-2012, 00:52
GofBorg wrote:

> I worked with it over the weekend and it runs as fast as the WinXP it
> replaced on my old P4D 1.8 processor with 2GB of memory.

Since upgrade from Windows 7, I must say performance overall seems
better now with Windows 8. But that's about the only good thing I have
to say about it.

> I received
> my first updates on Sunday although honestly I couldn't tell you what
> they were for, updating is apparently 'stealth mode' in Win8.

Oh heck as soon as I finished the upgrade on Friday there were already
some Windows Updates for it. I set it up so that it notifies me of
updates but doesn't install anything automatically.

--
Does this washcloth smell like chloroform?

Joseph Marton
30-Oct-2012, 00:52
GofBorg wrote:

> > http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows-8/feature-packs
> >
> Why do I need that?

Do you plan on watching DVDs?

--
Does this washcloth smell like chloroform?

GofBorg
30-Oct-2012, 16:17
> Do you plan on watching DVDs?

Can't say I've ever viewed a DVD on a PC.
Maybe once.

GofBorg
30-Oct-2012, 16:18
> Oh heck as soon as I finished the upgrade on Friday there were already
> some Windows Updates for it. I set it up so that it notifies me of
> updates but doesn't install anything automatically.

I hope the updates keep coming and sort out some of the niggles.

Joseph Marton
30-Oct-2012, 21:33
GofBorg wrote:

> > Do you plan on watching DVDs?
>
> Can't say I've ever viewed a DVD on a PC.
> Maybe once.

Well if you want to even have the capability, you need the Media Center
add-on as on its own Win8 does not have the CODECs. It's part of the
Media Center piece which normally costs $9.99 but is free right now
through January (or however long the $40 upgrade promo is going).

--
Does this washcloth smell like chloroform?

KBOYLE
30-Oct-2012, 21:49
kgroneman wrote:

> And I still just shake my head at institutions that ask to have
> something faxed to them. Fax machines and the people that run them
> refuse to die.

If a doctor's office didn't have a fax machine, it's unlikely they
would ever get any referrals!

--
Kevin Boyle - Knowledge Partner
If you find this post helpful and are using the web interface,
show your appreciation and click on the star below...

kgroneman
30-Oct-2012, 22:37
Maybe Windows 9 will charge you for an update to get a start menu.

--
Kim - 10/30/2012 3:36:54 PM

malcolmlewis
30-Oct-2012, 22:51
On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 21:37:45 +0000, kgroneman wrote:

> Maybe Windows 9 will charge you for an update to get a start menu.

I'm not sure there will be a windows9.... android is set to be the
dominant OS by 2016, maybe it will be sooner now ;)



--
Cheers Malcolm °¿° (Linux Counter #276890)
openSUSE 12.2 (x86_64) Kernel 3.4.11-2.16-desktop
up 1 day 22:40, 3 users, load average: 0.02, 0.06, 0.05
CPU Intel i5 CPU M520@2.40GHz | Intel Arrandale GPU

Joseph Marton
30-Oct-2012, 23:37
malcolmlewis wrote:

> I'm not sure there will be a windows9.... android is set to be the
> dominant OS by 2016, maybe it will be sooner now ;)

ChromeOS FTW.

--
Does this washcloth smell like chloroform?

craig wilson
31-Oct-2012, 13:16
Well MS is doing its best to eliminate Windows as a Viable OS with W8
(W...ait)

On 10/30/2012 5:51 PM, malcolmlewis wrote:
> On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 21:37:45 +0000, kgroneman wrote:
>
>> Maybe Windows 9 will charge you for an update to get a start menu.
>
> I'm not sure there will be a windows9.... android is set to be the
> dominant OS by 2016, maybe it will be sooner now ;)
>
>
>


--
Craig Wilson - MCNE, MCSE, CCNA
Novell Knowledge Partner

Novell does not officially monitor these forums.

Suggestions/Opinions/Statements made by me are solely my own.
These thoughts may not be shared by either Novell or any rational human.

George
31-Oct-2012, 14:33
On 10/30/2012 5:37 PM, kgroneman wrote:
> Maybe Windows 9 will charge you for an update to get a start menu.
>

I am wondering if assuming they use similar naming as past server OSs
2012 R2 will have a suitable server UI instead of one designed for a tablet?

GofBorg
31-Oct-2012, 20:02
> Maybe Windows 9 will charge you for an update to get a start menu.

I'm sure it will show up in the Windows Store in a few weeks.
It's like the old car sales game, "Oh you want keys with that?".
Shouldn't come as much surprise what with the carnival games they
play with Xbox. You know, sell credits in dollar increments and
sell things at 99 cents. : )

GofBorg
31-Oct-2012, 20:02
> I'm not sure there will be a windows9.... android is set to be the
> dominant OS by 2016, maybe it will be sooner now ;)

Yah right.

kgroneman
05-Nov-2012, 21:42
Hey Joseph Marton,

>Don't forget your free Windows 8 Media Center Pack add-on.

Got it...all it did was add media center which I didn't use on Win 7.
:-\

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Kim - 11/5/2012 1:41:20 PM

GofBorg
06-Nov-2012, 17:10
> Got it...all it did was add media center which I didn't use on Win 7.

Xactly.

kgroneman
06-Nov-2012, 18:06
But hey..it was free for a limited time, so I *had* to, right?

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Kim - 11/6/2012 10:05:57 AM

kgroneman
06-Nov-2012, 20:47
Oh..one unexpected problem. The mute and volume keys on my keyboard
didn't work. (all the other buttons did) I had to fix it by doing this:

1. Run services.msc
2. Look for the "Human Interface Device Access" service. On my PC this
was not running and configured to be Manual started.
3. I right clicked it, selected properties, changed the startup type to
"Automatic" and started the service. After that the keyboard audio
buttons worked.

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Kim - 11/6/2012 12:44:15 PM

Joseph Marton
07-Nov-2012, 01:34
kgroneman wrote:

> Oh..one unexpected problem. The mute and volume keys on my keyboard
> didn't work. (all the other buttons did) I had to fix it by doing
> this:
>
> 1. Run services.msc
> 2. Look for the "Human Interface Device Access" service. On my PC this
> was not running and configured to be Manual started.
> 3. I right clicked it, selected properties, changed the startup type
> to "Automatic" and started the service. After that the keyboard audio
> buttons worked.

After I installed VMware Player, allowed it to change a keyboard
setting, then had my computer go to sleep, my keyboard suddenly no
longer worked in Windows 8. Mouse was fine but no keyboard. Tried
bypassing the KVM, no change. Tried a wired USB keyboard, no luck.
Tried PS/2. Still nothing. Thank goodness for LogMeIn. I remoted
into my machine, removed all the keyboard stuff out of Device Manager,
and had it redetect. Then stuff started working again.

Now I'm scared to run VMware Player again.

--
Does this washcloth smell like chloroform?

kgroneman
07-Nov-2012, 18:30
I guess there are a few glitches by having generic drivers that are
supposed to cover everything.

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Kim - 11/7/2012 10:30:14 AM

kgroneman
07-Nov-2012, 21:18
LOL! I got an email from MS today to tell me how to customize Win8.
It included this paragraph:

>Windows comes with apps for Mail, Messaging, Calendar, People, and
>all the things that you need most. Sign in with your Microsoft
>account, connect it to your social networks, and watch the apps come
>to life.

Those were the first apps I deleted! :-)

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Kim - 11/7/2012 1:17:22 PM

GofBorg
07-Nov-2012, 23:51
> Those were the first apps I deleted! :-)

LOL.