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Simeonof
09-Feb-2012, 18:36
I just have to share with you guys what I witnessed today, I won't be
surprised if this is not happening only here in Bulgaria and nobody
admits it, but I tell you - I was shocked. Let me start from a bit far
away.

Ever since Novell signed the cooperation agreement with Microsoft, we
were keeping in line with Novell's direction to be open-minded about
integrating Microsoft technologies into Novell infrastructures, even
promoting installation of Novell products on Windows servers, etc. Even
more, we have always emphasized that Novell technologies are
multi-platform, that they integrate seamlessly with AD, etc., etc. It
was also stated in the same cooperation agreement, that Microsoft will
embrace SUSE linux as the preferred linux system to integrate into MS
environments, and will even sell SUSE to its customers. Maybe this is
the case in the US, but oh dear, this whole picture has nothing to do
with the reality here.

I agree that Microsoft currently has the biggest market share for its
systems, and currently Novell is quite "small" in market share, relative
to Microsoft. At least here, Novell is trying to survive with what has
left after the management decisions/strategy from the last 10 years
until now. There are very few new clients, and mostly in the SMB sector.
In the context of the cooperation between the companies, I would say
that Microsoft is a "bear" and Novell is an "ant". Currently the ant is
trying to sit on the same table with the bear, and waits for the bear's
left-overs. It's an ugly way to say it, but that's how I see it, and
this vision of mine just got confirmed (again) today. In the past it was
the other way around, but I don't remember Microsoft (in the ant
position) selling Novell-integrable (NetWare or e-Directory compatible)
applications. They went their own way and became the "bear". Truth is
that today, Microsoft's systems are all tightly integrated with their AD
and Exchange, and they don't work (at all, or well) with other
non-Microsoft systems.

Going back to what I witnessed today. One of the few left Novell-built
government organizations here got a new consultant few months ago. The
consultant has "consulted" the Minister that the whole infrastructure
should be replaced by Microsoft products. We're talking about a
relatively large organization (600-700 users), and pure Novell
infrastructure working since I can't remember how many years. OES,
GroupWise, iPrint, Access Manager, ZENworks CM, you name it - all Novell
systems, up-to-date, supported and working. So, new IT staff has been
hired, some of the old staff were "left" and a group was organized to
perform the migration. Of course, since we are the ones who built and
support the whole system, we were asked to come to a meeting and discuss
some points that were not very clear to the group. And guess who was on
that meeting - Microsoft Bulgaria. 3 of them. Officially they have
nothing to do with this. But in practice - they are the ones behind all
of it. The whole migration project is their doing through one of their
partners. It's a struggle for them to do the migration (as they have no
idea what they are migrating from) and they've asked us to give them an
offer to migrate our systems to Microsoft! So, Novell may sign whatever
agreements with MS, but MS is slowly taking over what's left, and they
don't want to hear about co-existing in a Novell infrastructure. They
are migrating everything and don't care how great Novell systems work on
Windows servers and with AD.

I hope the new Attachmate management will reconsider Novell's marketing
strategy, and lead Novell to become a "bear" again. Because, for me,
being the happy ant waiting for few left-overs, is humiliating. Being a
Novell CNE and CNI, and involved with Novell systems for many many
years, it's a pain to see what's happening and where Novell is going
during the past several years.

Maybe I'm still affected by this meeting today but this is what I think
of Novell's agreement with Microsoft:
##@%!%#!#@$#@$!#@%@%##@%#$#%#$!@!@!!!EFQ$##$#@$@ED D@!E@!!

Novell, remember who you were and what you were doing, and think where
are you now. Currently you are producing "pieces" of software. It's not
integrated anymore. OES, GW, ZENworks - they are completely independent
systems now. AD for GroupWise - do you really think a Microsoft shop
will go that way instead to Exchange? I doubt it. Drop the development
of Windows versions of your server products. Nobody cares that your
software is multiplatform. Concentrate on SUSE, it's a great OS with
huge potential, develop all products for SUSE only! If you stop
developing Windows versions, you may concentrate the efforts on linux,
and cut costs and prices as well. Increase quality, it has dropped
tremendously over the years! Stop serving Microsoft, they are not your
friend.

I just hope all my dedication to Novell and efforts during the past
years were not in vain...


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ashmoore
13-Feb-2012, 16:06
While I do not agree with the solution, I definitely agree with the
sentiment.
It is a very bad sign when your products integrate with the competition
better than they integrate with your own.
Why has taken three time longer than it should have to even suggest
leaving C1 behind - ZCM has replaced ZEN7 and has progressed into a
great product in the space of one GW version change.

Or why are there no "click here" options to integrate another Novell
product?
I'm looking at you Access Manager, Vibe, ZCM, iManager, OES, SLED.


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Simeonof
15-Feb-2012, 13:36
Off-topic

I'm afraid that one day we may be in a situation when the more
appropriate word in replacement of "better" (It is a very bad sign when
your products integrate with the competition better than they integrate
with your own.) may be "as bad as". All my hopes rely on Attachmate and
their commitment to return engineering excellence back to what everybody
associates the brand with. Otherwise it could end up the same as the
"all-season-tyres" for your car - they don't work in the spring, they
don't work in the summer, they don't work in the autumn and they don't
work in the winter. Unless you drive really really slow.

I agree that C1 should be replaced with a better tool, but I don't
think system management should be torn apart. I thought iManager would
be the tool going forward, but unfortunately that is not the case.

Right now we have:

Some OES services - iManager
DNS/DHCP - Java DNS/DHCP Console
iFolder - iFolder admin portal
ZCM - ZenWorks Control Center
GW - ConsoleOne and later - upcoming web administration tool
Access Manager - iManager (special edition). I'm curious to see what
will happen with it now, as NAM moved to NetIQ.

What is wrong with centralized and unified management?

Anyway, my own opinion technology-wise is not so important, just wanted
to let you guys know what MS is doing and be aware of their strategies
in order to protect yourselves accordingly and prevent the same
happening elsewhere.

Cheers.




ashmoore;2175316 Wrote:
> While I do not agree with the solution, I definitely agree with the
> sentiment.
> It is a very bad sign when your products integrate with the competition
> better than they integrate with your own.
> Why has taken three time longer than it should have to even suggest
> leaving C1 behind - ZCM has replaced ZEN7 and has progressed into a
> great product in the space of one GW version change.
>
> Or why are there no "click here" options to integrate another Novell
> product?
> I'm looking at you Access Manager, Vibe, ZCM, iManager, OES, SLED.


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leroyjjr
23-Mar-2012, 22:06
One would think that Attachmate would come with something clever like
oh, lets say WebMin ('Webmin' (http://www.webmin.com)) which is for
Linux Management.


Leroy Joseph
Visual Click Software
(eDirectory Management and Reporting)
'eDirectory Management and Reporting | DSRAZOR for eDirectory'
(http://www.visualclick.com/content/dsrazor-for-edirectory.htm)


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Patrick Farrell
03-Apr-2012, 20:16
On 3/23/2012 4:06 PM, leroyjjr wrote:
>
> One would think that Attachmate would come with something clever like �
> oh, let�s say �WebMin� ('Webmin' (http://www.webmin.com)) � which is for
> Linux Management.

Thumbs up for Webmin!

dopeka
14-Apr-2012, 17:16
Simeonof;2174644 Wrote:
> I just have to share with you guys what I witnessed today, I won't be
> surprised if this is not happening only here in Bulgaria and nobody
> admits it, but I tell you - I was shocked. Let me start from a bit far
> away.
>
> Ever since Novell signed the cooperation agreement with Microsoft, we
> were keeping in line with Novell's direction to be open-minded about
> integrating Microsoft technologies into Novell infrastructures, even
> promoting installation of Novell products on Windows servers, etc. Even
> more, we have always emphasized that Novell technologies are
> multi-platform, that they integrate seamlessly with AD, etc., etc. It
> was also stated in the same cooperation agreement, that Microsoft will
> embrace SUSE linux as the preferred linux system to integrate into MS
> environments, and will even sell SUSE to its customers. Maybe this is
> the case in the US, but oh dear, this whole picture has nothing to do
> with the reality here.
>
> I agree that Microsoft currently has the biggest market share for its
> systems, and currently Novell is quite "small" in market share, relative
> to Microsoft. At least here, Novell is trying to survive with what has
> left after the management decisions/strategy from the last 10 years
> until now. There are very few new clients, and mostly in the SMB sector.
> In the context of the cooperation between the companies, I would say
> that Microsoft is a "bear" and Novell is an "ant". Currently the ant is
> trying to sit on the same table with the bear, and waits for the bear's
> left-overs. It's an ugly way to say it, but that's how I see it, and
> this vision of mine just got confirmed (again) today. In the past it was
> the other way around, but I don't remember Microsoft (in the ant
> position) selling Novell-integrable (NetWare or e-Directory compatible)
> applications. They went their own way and became the "bear". Truth is
> that today, Microsoft's systems are all tightly integrated with their AD
> and Exchange, and they don't work (at all, or well) with other
> non-Microsoft systems.
>
> Going back to what I witnessed today. One of the few left Novell-built
> government organizations here got a new consultant few months ago. The
> consultant has "consulted" the Minister that the whole infrastructure
> should be replaced by Microsoft products. We're talking about a
> relatively large organization (600-700 users), and pure Novell
> infrastructure working since I can't remember how many years. OES,
> GroupWise, iPrint, Access Manager, ZENworks CM, you name it - all Novell
> systems, up-to-date, supported and working. So, new IT staff has been
> hired, some of the old staff were "left" and a group was organized to
> perform the migration. Of course, since we are the ones who built and
> support the whole system, we were asked to come to a meeting and discuss
> some points that were not very clear to the group. And guess who was on
> that meeting - Microsoft Bulgaria. 3 of them. Officially they have
> nothing to do with this. But in practice - they are the ones behind all
> of it. The whole migration project is their doing through one of their
> partners. It's a struggle for them to do the migration (as they have no
> idea what they are migr
>
> ating from) and they've asked us to give them an offer to migrate our
> systems to Microsoft! So, Novell may sign whatever agreements with MS,
> but MS is slowly taking over what's left, and they don't want to hear
> about co-existing in a Novell infrastructure. They are migrating
> everything and don't care how great Novell systems work on Windows
> servers and with AD.
>
> I hope the new Attachmate management will reconsider Novell's marketing
> strategy, and lead Novell to become a "bear" again. Because, for me,
> being the happy ant waiting for few left-overs, is humiliating. Being a
> Novell CNE and CNI, and involved with Novell systems for many many
> years, it's a pain to see what's happening and where Novell is going
> during the past several years.
>
> Maybe I'm still affected by this meeting today but this is what I think
> of Novell's agreement with Microsoft:
> ##@%!%#!#@$#@$!#@%@%##@%#$#%#$!@!@!!!EFQ$##$#@$@ED D@!E@!!
>
> Novell, remember who you were and what you were doing, and think where
> are you now. Currently you are producing "pieces" of software. It's not
> integrated anymore. OES, GW, ZENworks - they are completely independent
> systems now. AD for GroupWise - do you really think a Microsoft shop
> will go that way instead to Exchange? I doubt it
> . Drop the development of Windows versions of your server products.
> Nobody cares that your softw
> are is multiplatform. Concentrate on SUSE, it's a great OS with huge
> potential, develop all products for SUSE only! If you stop developing
> Windowsversions, you may concentrate the efforts on linux, and cut costs
> and prices as well. Increase quality, it has dropped tremendously over
> the years! Stop serving Microsoft, they are not your friend.
>
> I just hope all my dedication to Novell and efforts during the past
> years were not in vain...

Good luck with that!!
I've seen the decline too for many years. Invested alot and sad to say
to you....it a'int happening


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dopeka
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bpenris
25-Apr-2012, 09:16
I don't really understand why you would say that no one cares if
Novell's products are platform independent. Have you seen sales numbers,
Simeonof? I can't speak for other parts of the world but I see a lot of
school moving to a Windows ZCM implementation. Consultants tell me that
about 60% of all new ZCM projects they do are Windows based, basically
because it's such an awesome product but they don't want to hassle with
more than one server OS. Okay, you might lose the odd percent of
performance but this is negated by the costs of training your IT-staff
to troubleshoot a different OS for which the learning curve can be quite
steep.


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