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Bob
07-May-2017, 03:43
When Novell awarded an individual the CNE/MCNE status did Novell assume
any liability if that person messes up a corporate network? Could a
corporation potentially get compensation from Novell if a CNE/MCNE
messes up and cause that corporation loss of business? The question
applies to any company (Microsoft, Cisco, etc.) that awards some kind of
certification. I've always wondered about this. Any thoughts?

AndersG
07-May-2017, 14:34
Bob,
> When Novell awarded an individual the CNE/MCNE status did Novell assume
> any liability if that person messes up a corporate network?

No. But then again do I not work for Novell. There is no way that any
company would accept responsibility for what non-employees do.

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ScorpionSting
07-May-2017, 22:54
Its been a very long time since I did my MCNE, but I do recall signing a
declaration that I think had something along the lines of indemnifying
Novell (at the time) against any and all legalities as a result of
sitting the certification.


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hendersj
08-May-2017, 17:12
On Sun, 07 May 2017 02:43:01 +0000, Bob wrote:

> When Novell awarded an individual the CNE/MCNE status did Novell assume
> any liability if that person messes up a corporate network? Could a
> corporation potentially get compensation from Novell if a CNE/MCNE
> messes up and cause that corporation loss of business? The question
> applies to any company (Microsoft, Cisco, etc.) that awards some kind of
> certification. I've always wondered about this. Any thoughts?

In my personal opinion, no, there'd be no standing (the agreement is
between the candidate and the certifying authority). Any issues of
liability between employer/employee would not involve a third party; the
employee represented themselves as capable of doing the job. A
certification doesn't indemnify them in any way from taking inappropriate
actions that could cause loss of business or damage to the infrastructure.

MHO. :)
--
Jim Henderson, CNA6, CDE, CNI, LPIC-1, CLA10, CLP10
Novell/SUSE/NetIQ Knowledge Partner

kgroneman
08-May-2017, 18:38
The current certifications list is interesting:
https://www.microfocus.com/support-and-services/certification/ I guess my
ECNE doesn't carry much weight any more. :-)

--
Kim - 5/8/2017 11:37:13 AM

hendersj
08-May-2017, 22:56
On Mon, 08 May 2017 17:38:18 +0000, kgroneman wrote:

> The current certifications list is interesting:
> https://www.microfocus.com/support-and-services/certification/ I guess
> my ECNE doesn't carry much weight any more. :-)

Probably not. :)



--
Jim Henderson, CNA6, CDE, CNI, LPIC-1, CLA10, CLP10
Novell/SUSE/NetIQ Knowledge Partner

Bob
09-May-2017, 07:44
On 5/8/2017 12:12 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
<snip>

> In my personal opinion, no, there'd be no standing (the agreement is
> between the candidate and the certifying authority). Any issues of
> liability between employer/employee would not involve a third party; the
> employee represented themselves as capable of doing the job. A
> certification doesn't indemnify them in any way from taking inappropriate
> actions that could cause loss of business or damage to the infrastructure.
>
> MHO. :)
>

I've been trying to find any court case where this has been tested. No
luck. What you say makes sense but, I get uncomfortable when assuming
the law makes sense. I do appreciate your thoughts though. Thanks.

Bob
09-May-2017, 07:45
On 5/7/2017 9:34 AM, Anders Gustafsson wrote:
> Bob,
>> When Novell awarded an individual the CNE/MCNE status did Novell assume
>> any liability if that person messes up a corporate network?
>
> No. But then again do I not work for Novell. There is no way that any
> company would accept responsibility for what non-employees do.
>
I see your point. Thanks.

Bob
09-May-2017, 07:47
On 5/7/2017 5:54 PM, ScorpionSting wrote:
>
> Its been a very long time since I did my MCNE, but I do recall signing a
> declaration that I think had something along the lines of indemnifying
> Novell (at the time) against any and all legalities as a result of
> sitting the certification.
>
>

Better memory than I. Thanks.

hendersj
09-May-2017, 17:08
On Tue, 09 May 2017 06:44:25 +0000, Bob wrote:

> On 5/8/2017 12:12 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
> <snip>
>
>> In my personal opinion, no, there'd be no standing (the agreement is
>> between the candidate and the certifying authority). Any issues of
>> liability between employer/employee would not involve a third party;
>> the employee represented themselves as capable of doing the job. A
>> certification doesn't indemnify them in any way from taking
>> inappropriate actions that could cause loss of business or damage to
>> the infrastructure.
>>
>> MHO. :)
>>
>>
> I've been trying to find any court case where this has been tested. No
> luck. What you say makes sense but, I get uncomfortable when assuming
> the law makes sense. I do appreciate your thoughts though. Thanks.

Well, while it's MHO, it is an opinion based on being in the
certification and testing industry for a while. :) I've discussed
certification agreements (but not the liability issues) with lawyers in
the field - so it's a somewhat informed opinion.

Jim

--
Jim Henderson, CNA6, CDE, CNI, LPIC-1, CLA10, CLP10
Novell/SUSE/NetIQ Knowledge Partner

Bob
09-May-2017, 18:05
On 5/9/2017 12:08 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
<snip>

> Well, while it's MHO, it is an opinion based on being in the
> certification and testing industry for a while. :) I've discussed
> certification agreements (but not the liability issues) with lawyers in
> the field - so it's a somewhat informed opinion.
>
> Jim
>

I appreciate this information. Thank you.
Bob

hendersj
09-May-2017, 18:31
On Tue, 09 May 2017 17:05:46 +0000, Bob wrote:

> On 5/9/2017 12:08 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
> <snip>
>
>> Well, while it's MHO, it is an opinion based on being in the
>> certification and testing industry for a while. :) I've discussed
>> certification agreements (but not the liability issues) with lawyers in
>> the field - so it's a somewhat informed opinion.
>>
>> Jim
>>
>>
> I appreciate this information. Thank you.
> Bob

You bet :)



--
Jim Henderson, CNA6, CDE, CNI, LPIC-1, CLA10, CLP10
Novell/SUSE/NetIQ Knowledge Partner

tBM
10-May-2017, 18:19
Having the certification at minimum only means you are good at reading
and then taking a test. Does not mean you have a sound knowledge of the
product and how to manage it in the real world, in many cases under fire
when an issue arises.

On 05/06/2017 10:43 PM, Bob wrote:
> When Novell awarded an individual the CNE/MCNE status did Novell assume
> any liability if that person messes up a corporate network? Could a
> corporation potentially get compensation from Novell if a CNE/MCNE
> messes up and cause that corporation loss of business? The question
> applies to any company (Microsoft, Cisco, etc.) that awards some kind of
> certification. I've always wondered about this. Any thoughts?

--
-
tBM :)

Susan
12-May-2017, 14:04
In fields of endeavor where liability can be applied, the liability
falls onto the person doing the work, not the entity that certified
the individual after the individual took a test.

For instance, in law, if a lawyer messes up, you cannot go back and
sue the law school that gave her the education or the state in which
she passed the bar exam. In the medical field, it is the doctor who
is liable, not the state medical board or the school which gave her
the education.

So, while you may not have been able to find any cases on point with
a technology certification, there are enough cases on point relating
to professional liability that a judge would look to, should she need
to make a ruling in such a matter. And those cases fall with the
liability on the shoulders of the person who did the work.

Certifications and licenses indicate that the person has a certain
level of knowledge about a subject, not that they know what to do
with that knowledge.

--
Susan
Micro Focus Community Chat Moderator

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kgroneman
12-May-2017, 14:39
Ooooo. Good answer.

--
Kim - 5/12/2017 7:39:35 AM

hendersj
13-May-2017, 01:13
Exactly - fantastic answer. :)

Jim



--
Jim Henderson, CNA6, CDE, CNI, LPIC-1, CLA10, CLP10
Novell/SUSE/NetIQ Knowledge Partner

Susan
14-May-2017, 16:49
:)

--
Susan
Micro Focus Community Chat Moderator

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Bob
17-May-2017, 08:52
On 5/12/2017 9:04 AM, Susan wrote:
> In fields of endeavor where liability can be applied, the liability
> falls onto the person doing the work, not the entity that certified
> the individual after the individual took a test.
<SNIP>
>
>

Appreciate the info. Thanks. Makes sense.