# Goodbye Netware and hello SLES or Windows? **URL:** \ **Category:** Chatting over the Back Fence\ **Created:** [August 20, 2012, 7:36pm UTC](https://forums.suse.com/t/goodbye-netware-and-hello-sles-or-windows/22992 "2012-08-20T19:36:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![System1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/51bf81/32.png) [@System1](https://forums.suse.com/u/System1)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2012, 7:36pm UTC](https://forums.suse.com/t/goodbye-netware-and-hello-sles-or-windows/22992/1 "2012-08-20T19:36:01Z")
We have been a non-profit using GroupWise and Netware for more than a decade. The two Netware servers have been playing nice to the four Windows servers, but now we must decide if we keep GroupWise and move into SLES or we move to Exchange. My IT dept of two 🙂 wants to keep GroupWise and dive into SLES while our consultants keep saying drop it and move to Exchange because GroupWise is on death row and SLES is wonderful until it breaks and then is hard to get help. If you have been in the same cross road and kept GroupWise, how difficult is the administration of SLES and does it play nice with Windows servers? Your expertise will be greatly appreciated! ## – lanaleon lanaleon’s Profile: [http://forums.novell.com/member.php?userid=16538](http://forums.novell.com/member.php?userid=16538) View this thread: [http://forums.novell.com/showthread.php?t=459123](http://forums.novell.com/showthread.php?t=459123) ---
**Author:** ![system](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex022/uploads/suse/original/2X/5/5012ba89e3ffb5220dac47d5ea0ba032e2fe1cb6.png) [@system](https://forums.suse.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2012, 9:10pm UTC](https://forums.suse.com/t/goodbye-netware-and-hello-sles-or-windows/22992/2 "2012-08-20T21:10:49Z")
Lanaleon,[color=blue] > while our consultants keep saying drop it > and move to Exchange[/color] They are likely to say so because it will cost you more consulting fees… GW on SLES runs just fine. In what way do you want it to play with the Windows servers? – Anders Gustafsson (NKP) The Aaland Islands (N60 E20) Have an idea for a product enhancement? Please visit: [http://www.novell.com/rms](http://www.novell.com/rms) ---
**Author:** ![system](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex022/uploads/suse/original/2X/5/5012ba89e3ffb5220dac47d5ea0ba032e2fe1cb6.png) [@system](https://forums.suse.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2012, 9:17pm UTC](https://forums.suse.com/t/goodbye-netware-and-hello-sles-or-windows/22992/3 "2012-08-20T21:17:31Z")
lanaleon wrote: [color=blue] > We have been a non-profit using GroupWise and Netware for more than a > decade. The two Netware servers have been playing nice to the four > Windows servers, but now we must decide if we keep GroupWise and move > into SLES or we move to Exchange. My IT dept of two 🙂 wants to keep > GroupWise and dive into SLES while our consultants keep saying drop it > and move to Exchange because GroupWise is on death row and SLES is > wonderful until it breaks and then is hard to get help. If you have > been in the same cross road and kept GroupWise, how difficult is the > administration of SLES and does it play nice with Windows servers?[/color] GroupWise is hardly on death row–that is pure FUD. There’s a great interactive roadmap located at [www.novell.com/gwroadmap](https://www.novell.com/gwroadmap). There’s also been some great comments from independent analysts such as Gartner. Not to mention moving GroupWise from NW to Linux is a much simpler process than migrating to Exchange, saving both time and money. You can find more info comparing GroupWise 2012 to Exchange 2010 here. [http://www.novell.com/products/groupwise/resource-library.html#competitive](http://www.novell.com/products/groupwise/resource-library.html#competitive) Also keep in mind that with our next release of GroupWise (code-named “Windmere”) we’re targeting a new admin model which will do things such as remove the requirement for eDirectory, introduce web administration, etc. – Does this washcloth smell like chloroform? ---
**Author:** ![system](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex022/uploads/suse/original/2X/5/5012ba89e3ffb5220dac47d5ea0ba032e2fe1cb6.png) [@system](https://forums.suse.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2012, 9:22pm UTC](https://forums.suse.com/t/goodbye-netware-and-hello-sles-or-windows/22992/4 "2012-08-20T21:22:58Z")
lanaleon sounds like they ‘said’: [color=blue] > Your expertise will be greatly appreciated![/color] So my response to lanaleon’s comment is… I would say stick w/ Groupwise on SLES, runs great. Consultants want exchange, etc as it means more money for them in consulting fees. We went from Netware to SLES/OES, went pretty smooth for the most part. Consultants won’t tell you about the additional CALs you’ll need for MS servers anyway. We’ve been told that _any_ user that connects in _any_ way to an MS server requires a CAL for that server as well as for AD, so you’re looking @ AD licenses, exchange licenses, plus CALs for users on servers. – Stevo ---
**Author:** ![Paullamontagne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paullamontagne](https://forums.suse.com/u/Paullamontagne)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2012, 9:28pm UTC](https://forums.suse.com/t/goodbye-netware-and-hello-sles-or-windows/22992/5 "2012-08-20T21:28:36Z")
[color=blue] > but now we must decide if we keep GroupWise and move > into SLES or we move to Exchange.? > [/color] GroupWise also works on Windows…so you can tell the Consultants that. So no extra cost to you since you already own GroupWise… – Paul ---
**Author:** ![system](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex022/uploads/suse/original/2X/5/5012ba89e3ffb5220dac47d5ea0ba032e2fe1cb6.png) [@system](https://forums.suse.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2012, 10:06pm UTC](https://forums.suse.com/t/goodbye-netware-and-hello-sles-or-windows/22992/6 "2012-08-20T22:06:01Z")
The windows servers we have are: backup server using BackupExec (backups Novell without a problem and I know there are other options like SEP), a property management server with a SQL db, a WTS server to share the SQL db and other in-house databases and a Blackberry server. We want to make sure the new platform continues to work with Active Directory. ## – lanaleon lanaleon’s Profile: [http://forums.novell.com/member.php?userid=16538](http://forums.novell.com/member.php?userid=16538) View this thread: [http://forums.novell.com/showthread.php?t=459123](http://forums.novell.com/showthread.php?t=459123) ---
**Author:** ![Paullamontagne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paullamontagne](https://forums.suse.com/u/Paullamontagne)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2012, 10:47pm UTC](https://forums.suse.com/t/goodbye-netware-and-hello-sles-or-windows/22992/7 "2012-08-20T22:47:04Z")
[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred] > > > [/color][/color][/color] > > > [color=blue] > > > The windows servers we have are: backup server using BackupExec (backups > > > Novell without a problem and I know there are other options like SEP), a > > > property management server with a SQL db, a WTS server to share the SQL > > > db and other in‑house databases and a Blackberry server. We want to[/color] > > > make[color=blue] > > > sure the new platform continues to work with Active Directory.[/color] While with GroupWise 2012 (and SP! releasing in the next month or so)It still does require eDirectory. So you can Add either SLES boxes with eDirectory or add Windows Server, with eDirectory only(do not put AD on it) Also if you chose to go to SLES, remember you also get Data Synchronizer - Mobility Pack which will allow you to sync e-mail, appointments , contacts with users who are not using Blackberries, such as iPhones, iPads, Android tablets and Blackberry PlayBooks, without using Blackberry Bridge The next major release of GroupWise code named Windemere will remove the dependency on eDirectory, so either eDirectory or Active Directory can be the User Source for the GroupWise accounts. By keeping GroupWise you will be able to leverage your current knowledge, reduce the need for End-user training and stay with a secure mail system. It will also have no issues existing with your Existing BES environment. – Paul ---
**Author:** ![system](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex022/uploads/suse/original/2X/5/5012ba89e3ffb5220dac47d5ea0ba032e2fe1cb6.png) [@system](https://forums.suse.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2012, 11:17pm UTC](https://forums.suse.com/t/goodbye-netware-and-hello-sles-or-windows/22992/8 "2012-08-20T23:17:27Z")
On 8/20/2012 2:10 PM, Anders Gustafsson wrote:[color=blue] > Lanaleon,[color=green] > > > while our consultants keep saying drop it > > and move to Exchange[/color] > > They are likely to say so because it will cost you more consulting > fees… > > GW on SLES runs just fine. In what way do you want it to play with the > Windows servers? > [/color] Or because that is what they know. Make the correct choice of product for your company, then pick the consultant that can help with that. Don’t pick the Product based on the Consultant. – Craig Wilson - MCNE, MCSE, CCNA Novell Knowledge Partner Novell does not officially monitor these forums. Suggestions/Opinions/Statements made by me are solely my own. These thoughts may not be shared by either Novell or any rational human. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex022/uploads/suse/original/2X/5/5012ba89e3ffb5220dac47d5ea0ba032e2fe1cb6.png) [@system](https://forums.suse.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2012, 11:36pm UTC](https://forums.suse.com/t/goodbye-netware-and-hello-sles-or-windows/22992/9 "2012-08-20T23:36:08Z")
I know this is Novell hosted an all, but lets keep the FUD to a minimum. Education purposes only folks. MS licenses the core product and then USER _or_ DEVICE cals. Server, Exchange and SQL work the same way. For example you have a windows server for file/print, an Exchange server and 10 workstations. (not that you would do this, just an example) the license count would be: 2x Server OS 1x Exchange Server 5x Windows Server device or User CALs 5x Exchange Device or User CALs If an Org has 25 users and only 10 shared workstations, device licenses are acceptable. If an organization has users with a workstation, laptop and cell phone, then user licensing makes sense. There are no ‘AD’ licenses. On 8/20/2012 1:22 PM, Stevo wrote:[color=blue] > Consultants won’t tell you about the additional CALs you’ll need for MS > servers anyway. We’ve been told that _any_ user that connects in _any_ > way to an MS server requires a CAL for that server as well as for AD, > so you’re looking @ AD licenses, exchange licenses, plus CALs for users > on servers. > [/color] ---
**Author:** ![system](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex022/uploads/suse/original/2X/5/5012ba89e3ffb5220dac47d5ea0ba032e2fe1cb6.png) [@system](https://forums.suse.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2012, 12:15am UTC](https://forums.suse.com/t/goodbye-netware-and-hello-sles-or-windows/22992/10 "2012-08-21T00:15:24Z")
One man’s FUD is another man’s reality. One of the things most have learned in here is that MS licensing reality varies from company to company, and the answers you get for your questions vary from moment to moment from MS staff, including those specifically in licensing. There are people in here whose companies have been hit with bills for far, far more in licensing than they were led to believe they would have to pay, but that bill only came AFTER everything was installed and MS audited their licensing. : ) – Susan Novell Community Chat Moderator [http://forums.novell.com/faq.php?faq=novfor#faq\_rules](http://forums.novell.com/faq.php?faq=novfor#faq_rules) [http://www.ncci.org](http://www.ncci.org) NCCIrregulars Web Site [https://www.facebook.com/groups/NCCIrregulars](https://www.facebook.com/groups/NCCIrregulars) Please read the following before posting in here: [http://preview.tinyurl.com/27zopdy](http://preview.tinyurl.com/27zopdy) ---
**Author:** ![system](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex022/uploads/suse/original/2X/5/5012ba89e3ffb5220dac47d5ea0ba032e2fe1cb6.png) [@system](https://forums.suse.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2012, 12:47am UTC](https://forums.suse.com/t/goodbye-netware-and-hello-sles-or-windows/22992/11 "2012-08-21T00:47:20Z")
unsigned sounds like they ‘said’: [color=blue] > I know this is Novell hosted an all, but lets keep the FUD to a > minimum. Education purposes only folks.[/color] So my response to unsigned’s comment is… Was not meaning to be bashing or anything like that. We have an app (timecard app) that users access via a web interface. We were told that we need CALs for this server for users to access the web interface. To me that doesn’t make any sense, when we already paid a pile of money for the software, which included licensing. – Stevo ---
**Author:** ![system](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex022/uploads/suse/original/2X/5/5012ba89e3ffb5220dac47d5ea0ba032e2fe1cb6.png) [@system](https://forums.suse.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2012, 1:26am UTC](https://forums.suse.com/t/goodbye-netware-and-hello-sles-or-windows/22992/12 "2012-08-21T01:26:32Z")
FUD and perceived reality isn’t a replacement for education. I too have experienced my fare share of MS licensing quandaries, but do know the basics are the basics. This wasn’t in reference to server virtualization, VDI, DR, product clusters or such where things can get hairy. No matter our core OS’s, as IT Pro’s its likely that we will touch MS products and have to account for licensing in some capacity. I will also say that MS isn’t unique in having inconsistent licensing application, yet they are far from antagonistic. I process our Novell yearly MLA renewals and the methods and responses have varied widely each year. It has been in the neighborhood of 10 years and I can’t think of one where I wasn’t surprised by something. Granted, Novell takes good care of us customers and if there is a question and documentation of a prior answer (right/wrong/changed), the issue is taken care of. I wouldn’t hold my breath that MS would take the same position. On 8/20/2012 4:15 PM, Susan wrote:[color=blue] > One man’s FUD is another man’s reality. One of the things most have > learned in here is that MS licensing reality varies from company to > company, and the answers you get for your questions vary from moment to > moment from MS staff, including those specifically in licensing. > > There are people in here whose companies have been hit with bills for > far, far more in licensing than they were led to believe they would > have to pay, but that bill only came AFTER everything was installed and > MS audited their licensing. : ) > [/color] ---
**Author:** ![system](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex022/uploads/suse/original/2X/5/5012ba89e3ffb5220dac47d5ea0ba032e2fe1cb6.png) [@system](https://forums.suse.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2012, 1:42am UTC](https://forums.suse.com/t/goodbye-netware-and-hello-sles-or-windows/22992/13 "2012-08-21T01:42:07Z")
I didn’t think there was bashing, sorry! I was just trying to put some solid info out there. Its not legal advice, but its my understanding that it depends on the version of windows and whether or not the user uses AD as a login processor for the web site. The licensing requirement is pretty well publicized for web servers as MS has been, since the 2008 release anyway, attempting to erode the OSS hold. (right or wrong, IMHO, I prefer apache for web servers). This is one of the reasons MS released the Web edition of server. On 8/20/2012 4:47 PM, Stevo wrote:[color=blue] > unsigned sounds like they ‘said’: > [color=green] > > > I know this is Novell hosted an all, but lets keep the FUD to a > > minimum. Education purposes only folks.[/color] > > So my response to unsigned’s comment is… > > Was not meaning to be bashing or anything like that. We have an app > (timecard app) that users access via a web interface. We were told > that we need CALs for this server for users to access the web > interface. To me that doesn’t make any sense, when we already paid a > pile of money for the software, which included licensing. > [/color] ---
**Author:** ![system](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex022/uploads/suse/original/2X/5/5012ba89e3ffb5220dac47d5ea0ba032e2fe1cb6.png) [@system](https://forums.suse.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2012, 2:46am UTC](https://forums.suse.com/t/goodbye-netware-and-hello-sles-or-windows/22992/14 "2012-08-21T02:46:01Z")
the consultants either know SFA about groupwise and want to put you on something they know about (as well as the fees to migrate from groupwise to exchange, software and so on) if groupwise works for the company then keep groupwise and move it to SLES, don’t take the consultants word as gospel as half the time they can’t care less about the needs of the company honestly i’d stick with what works well which soudns like groupwise for you guys ## – gleach1 gleach1’s Profile: [http://forums.novell.com/member.php?userid=934](http://forums.novell.com/member.php?userid=934) View this thread: [http://forums.novell.com/showthread.php?t=459123](http://forums.novell.com/showthread.php?t=459123) ---
**Author:** ![system](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex022/uploads/suse/original/2X/5/5012ba89e3ffb5220dac47d5ea0ba032e2fe1cb6.png) [@system](https://forums.suse.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2012, 7:17am UTC](https://forums.suse.com/t/goodbye-netware-and-hello-sles-or-windows/22992/15 "2012-08-21T07:17:01Z")
How’s the weather up above Chicago these days? Has the heat wave finally broken? : ) – Susan Novell Community Chat Moderator [http://forums.novell.com/faq.php?faq=novfor#faq\_rules](http://forums.novell.com/faq.php?faq=novfor#faq_rules) [http://www.ncci.org](http://www.ncci.org) NCCIrregulars Web Site [https://www.facebook.com/groups/NCCIrregulars](https://www.facebook.com/groups/NCCIrregulars) Please read the following before posting in here: [http://preview.tinyurl.com/27zopdy](http://preview.tinyurl.com/27zopdy) ---
**Author:** ![system](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex022/uploads/suse/original/2X/5/5012ba89e3ffb5220dac47d5ea0ba032e2fe1cb6.png) [@system](https://forums.suse.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2012, 4:05pm UTC](https://forums.suse.com/t/goodbye-netware-and-hello-sles-or-windows/22992/16 "2012-08-21T16:05:19Z")
On 20/08/2012 17:36, lanaleon wrote:[color=blue] > We have been a non-profit using GroupWise and Netware for more than a > decade. The two Netware servers have been playing nice to the four > Windows servers, but now we must decide if we keep GroupWise and move > into SLES or we move to Exchange. My IT dept of two 🙂 wants to keep > GroupWise and dive into SLES while our consultants keep saying drop it > and move to Exchange because GroupWise is on death row and SLES is > wonderful until it breaks and then is hard to get help. If you have been > in the same cross road and kept GroupWise, how difficult is the > administration of SLES and does it play nice with Windows servers?[/color] GW on windows isn’t _quite_ as nice as on sles or netware, but works fine. if you want to avoid linux (and many do, that don’t already have skills there but are a mixed netware/windows shop) then its worth considering. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex022/uploads/suse/original/2X/5/5012ba89e3ffb5220dac47d5ea0ba032e2fe1cb6.png) [@system](https://forums.suse.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2012, 4:19pm UTC](https://forums.suse.com/t/goodbye-netware-and-hello-sles-or-windows/22992/17 "2012-08-21T16:19:20Z")
Lanaleon,[color=blue] > property management server with a SQL db, a WTS server to share the SQL > db and other in-house databases and a Blackberry server. We want to make > sure the new platform continues to work with Active Directory.[/color] OK. FWIW, you might not even need AD as MS SQL can authenticate against Domain Services on Novell. – Anders Gustafsson (NKP) The Aaland Islands (N60 E20) Have an idea for a product enhancement? Please visit: [http://www.novell.com/rms](http://www.novell.com/rms) ---
**Author:** ![system](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex022/uploads/suse/original/2X/5/5012ba89e3ffb5220dac47d5ea0ba032e2fe1cb6.png) [@system](https://forums.suse.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2012, 5:22pm UTC](https://forums.suse.com/t/goodbye-netware-and-hello-sles-or-windows/22992/18 "2012-08-21T17:22:57Z")
On Mon, 20 Aug 2012 20:36:08 GMT, unsigned [unsigned@digerati.us](mailto:unsigned@digerati.us) wrote: [color=blue] > I know this is Novell hosted an all, but lets keep the FUD to a minimum. > Education purposes only folks. > > MS licenses the core product and then USER _or_ DEVICE cals. Server, > Exchange and SQL work the same way. > > For example you have a windows server for file/print, an Exchange server > and 10 workstations. (not that you would do this, just an example) > > the license count would be: > 2x Server OS > 1x Exchange Server > 5x Windows Server device or User CALs > 5x Exchange Device or User CALs[/color] If you have 10 workstations, wouldn’t it be: 10x Windows Server device or User CALs 10x Exchange Device or User CALs ---
**Author:** ![system](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex022/uploads/suse/original/2X/5/5012ba89e3ffb5220dac47d5ea0ba032e2fe1cb6.png) [@system](https://forums.suse.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2012, 5:41pm UTC](https://forums.suse.com/t/goodbye-netware-and-hello-sles-or-windows/22992/19 "2012-08-21T17:41:03Z")
On 8/20/2012 11:36 AM, lanaleon wrote:[color=blue] > We have been a non-profit using GroupWise and Netware for more than a > decade. The two Netware servers have been playing nice to the four > Windows servers, but now we must decide if we keep GroupWise and move > into SLES or we move to Exchange. My IT dept of two 🙂 wants to keep > GroupWise and dive into SLES while our consultants keep saying drop it > and move to Exchange because GroupWise is on death row and SLES is > wonderful until it breaks and then is hard to get help. If you have been > in the same cross road and kept GroupWise, how difficult is the > administration of SLES and does it play nice with Windows servers? > > Your expertise will be greatly appreciated! > > [/color] we are kind of in the same boat, but we did decide to stick with GroupWise and OES/SLES for now. We are a small shop and needed a consultant for help on OES issues and found none in our area. Every consultant we talked to couldn’t help us. (Actually my GWAVA rep told me we are the last GW shop in this area.) The quotes we got for migrating to Windows servers, Exchange, etc was way beyond what we could afford. So, we are moving forward with the GW/OES migrations, which is scary with no help around. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex022/uploads/suse/original/2X/5/5012ba89e3ffb5220dac47d5ea0ba032e2fe1cb6.png) [@system](https://forums.suse.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2012, 6:28pm UTC](https://forums.suse.com/t/goodbye-netware-and-hello-sles-or-windows/22992/20 "2012-08-21T18:28:27Z")
Steve B,[color=blue] > which is scary with no help around.[/color] We are here! 🙂 – Anders Gustafsson (NKP) The Aaland Islands (N60 E20) Have an idea for a product enhancement? Please visit: [http://www.novell.com/rms](http://www.novell.com/rms) [Next page](https://forums.suse.com/t/goodbye-netware-and-hello-sles-or-windows/22992.md?page=2)