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mbramadan
29-Mar-2016, 11:24
Hello,
We have some Centos machines (7.2) that were restarting in Hyper-v because even though version 7.2 has LIS integrated into the kernel, it turns out that kernel 229.7.2.el7.x86_64 works better in Hyper-v than the newest one 3.10.0-327.4.5.el7.x86_64.

I was wondering if this was a similar issue with Suse.

We are running Suse Linux enterprise Server 12 (x86_64) with kernel la 3.12.51-52.31 and it is restarting daily.
can you recommend a stable kernel to downgrade to with LIS enabled?

Thank you

ab
29-Mar-2016, 12:01
On 03/29/2016 04:34 AM, mbramadan wrote:
>
> Hello,
> We have some Centos machines (7.2) that were restarting in Hyper-v
> because even though version 7.2 has LIS integrated into the kernel, it

What is LTS in this case? The only thing that comes to mind is 'Long Term
Support', but that does not make sense in this context as you've described it.

> turns out that kernel 229.7.2.el7.x86_64 works better in Hyper-v than

kernel 299? Does Centos do something really odd with kernel numbers, or
has microsoft changed them drastically? Maybe this is related to some
other technology referred-to by you as LTS.

> the newest one 3.10.0-327.4.5.el7.x86_64.
>
> I was wondering if this was a similar issue with Suse.

I've never seen any issue, that wasn't a bug resolved about a day later,
that prevented a Linux system from being up for months at a time, or
longer. If something is restarting daily on its own, look at cron jobs.
If it's crashing daily, patch. If patching odes not fix it, there's a
serious bug somewhere, and since nobody else I know is doing this with
Linux in other physical or virtual environments (Xen, KVM, Virtualbox,
LXC, docker, VMware) I'd check your virtualization environment first.

> We are running Suse Linux enterprise Server 12 (x86_64) with kernel la
> 3.12.51-52.31 and it is restarting daily.
> can you recommend a stable kernel to downgrade to with LIS enabled?

Sounds like the only thing common between the SUSE and Centos world is the
virtualization technology. Fix it.

--
Good luck.

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mbramadan
29-Mar-2016, 12:36
So much for support when the only reply is "fix it"

1st. LIS stands for Linux Integrated Services. (not Long Term Support.. where did you get the T? )
its integrated into the kernel and allows compatibility between Microsoft Hyper-v and Linux virtual machines.

2nd. kernel 229.7.2.el7.x86_64 = 3.10.0-229.7.2.el7.x86_64.
as opposed to kernel 3.10.0-327.4.5.el7.x86_64
Both of them are upgrades to Centos Version 7.2 which has LIS built in but the newer kernel version isn't "as" compatible.


since Centos had an issue with newer kernels, I'm looking for the versions that are officially supported in SUSE 12 LES (linux enterprise server)

These are the SUSE kernels I'm talking about
July-31-2015 3.12.44-52.10.1
Sep-23-2015 3.12.44-52.18.1
Oct-13-2015 3.12.48-52.27.1
Dec-04-2015 3.12.51-52.31.1
Jan-19-2016 3.12.51-52.34.1
Jan-22-2016 3.12.51-52.39.1
Mar-16-2016 3.12.55-52.42.1

we're using 3.12.51-52.31.1. maybe an older version works better but which one? I'm hoping I don't have to go down the list and try them all.


3rd. Are you a SAN storage admin? maybe that's why you haven't seen this before. Doesn't mean it's not an issue.
we've opened up support with MS and they're looking into it also.

And while I am aware the problem is related to the virtualization program, in the end, I'm just looking for a SUSE/LIS kernel compatibility list in parallel to see if we can downgrade kernels and find the issue.
Thats all.


Thanks



On 03/29/2016 04:34 AM, mbramadan wrote:
>
> Hello,
> We have some Centos machines (7.2) that were restarting in Hyper-v
> because even though version 7.2 has LIS integrated into the kernel, it

What is LTS in this case? The only thing that comes to mind is 'Long Term
Support', but that does not make sense in this context as you've described it.

> turns out that kernel 229.7.2.el7.x86_64 works better in Hyper-v than

kernel 299? Does Centos do something really odd with kernel numbers, or
has microsoft changed them drastically? Maybe this is related to some
other technology referred-to by you as LTS.

> the newest one 3.10.0-327.4.5.el7.x86_64.
>
> I was wondering if this was a similar issue with Suse.

I've never seen any issue, that wasn't a bug resolved about a day later,
that prevented a Linux system from being up for months at a time, or
longer. If something is restarting daily on its own, look at cron jobs.
If it's crashing daily, patch. If patching odes not fix it, there's a
serious bug somewhere, and since nobody else I know is doing this with
Linux in other physical or virtual environments (Xen, KVM, Virtualbox,
LXC, docker, VMware) I'd check your virtualization environment first.

> We are running Suse Linux enterprise Server 12 (x86_64) with kernel la
> 3.12.51-52.31 and it is restarting daily.
> can you recommend a stable kernel to downgrade to with LIS enabled?

Sounds like the only thing common between the SUSE and Centos world is the
virtualization technology. Fix it.

--
Good luck.

If you find this post helpful and are logged into the web interface,
show your appreciation and click on the star below...

ab
29-Mar-2016, 13:21
On 03/29/2016 05:44 AM, mbramadan wrote:
>
> So much for support when the only reply is "fix it"

Yes indeed.

> 1st. LIS stands for Linux Integrated Services. (not Long Term
> Support.. where did you get the T? )

Fuzzy vision. Note to self: call an optometrist. Sorry about that
confusion, and thanks for the definition. Googling for "LIS" does not
find what I would have needed either, but the definition did help.

> its integrated into the kernel and allows compatibility between
> Microsoft Hyper-v and Linux virtual machines.

I presume is does something specific, since running fully virtualized
works with all kinds of VM solutions out of the box. Oh well, probably
irrelevant at this point.

> 2nd. kernel 229.7.2.el7.x86_64 = 3.10.0-229.7.2.el7.x86_64.
> as opposed to kernel 3.10.0-327.4.5.el7.x86_64
> Both of them are upgrades to Centos Version 7.2 which has LIS built in
> but the newer kernel version isn't "as" compatible.

I see. Sorry, I've never seen somebody shorthand the kernel version to
just the last few bits.

> since Centos had an issue with newer kernels, I'm looking for the
> versions that are officially supported in SUSE 12 LES (linux enterprise
> server)

SUSE and RedHat build kernels very differently. SUSE has tried to b e bit
more up-to-date with technologies than RHEL, hopefully while maintaining
stability, as that is paramount in the enterprise. As a result, we have
seen things like changing kernel minor releases within a line of products
(SLES 11 moved to the 3.0 kernel) while RHEL did not (still on 2.6 in the
RHEL 6.7 release). Perhaps this is one of the reasons I've never seen
somebody shorthand kernel versions in SUSE-land, since the main version
could change from time to time. Just guessing...

> These are the SUSE kernels I'm talking about
> July-31-2015 3.12.44-52.10.1
> Sep-23-2015 3.12.44-52.18.1
> Oct-13-2015 3.12.48-52.27.1
> Dec-04-2015 3.12.51-52.31.1
> Jan-19-2016 3.12.51-52.34.1
> Jan-22-2016 3.12.51-52.39.1
> Mar-16-2016 3.12.55-52.42.1
>
> we're using 3.12.51-52.31.1. maybe an older version works better but
> which one? I'm hoping I don't have to go down the list and try them
> all.
>
>
> 3rd. Are you a SAN storage admin? maybe that's why you haven't seen this
> before. Doesn't mean it's not an issue.
> we've opened up support with MS and they're looking into it also.

No, definitely I am not, and agreed my knowledge is potentially less than
complete on all topics (or so I am told).

> And while I am aware the problem is related to the virtualization
> program, in the end, I'm just looking for a SUSE/LIS kernel
> compatibility list in parallel to see if we can downgrade kernels and
> find the issue.
> Thats all.

You mentioned SLES 12; have you tried SP1 where the latest fixes reside?

Also, you have probably seen this already:

https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dn873998.aspx

While you're presumably not converting VMs at his point, the part I found
interesting was the inclusion of hyper-v modules in the initrd which would
impact booting, though in that case it would probably cause an infinite
stream of reboots, never fully booting, where you described your problem
as rebooting daily (meaning once per day, which sounds more like a cronjob
than a kernel problem). Also, admittedly, SLES 12 is not mentioned in
there, but the doc is a year old so it may just be outdated. A document
on SLES and Hyper-v support here was nicer:
https://technet.microsoft.com/library/dn531027%28ws.12%29.aspx and it was
updated just a few days ago.

From another thread in the forum (
https://forums.suse.com/showthread.php?6714 ) it would appear that there
are hyper-v RPMs that can be installed which may provide some assistance
with the virtualization host. Do you have those installed, or do you see
them as available (zypper se hyper-v)? The bigger takeaway from that
thread looks like it also had to do with the initrd and kernel modules.

--
Good luck.

If you find this post helpful and are logged into the web interface,
show your appreciation and click on the star below...

mbramadan
30-Mar-2016, 12:08
Thanks for trying ab, but like you said, it's a MS issue with LIS, not a problem with SUSE per se, so installing SP1 on a production VM may or may not work. plus since MS only shows the OS versions that LIS is compatible with it's not really that helpful since the links don't show kernel information which is basically the only thing I'm looking for. (built in is not a kernel..)
I guess I'll just ask MS and see what they say. They take forever though...
Anyway thanks again for trying




On 03/29/2016 05:44 AM, mbramadan wrote:
>
> So much for support when the only reply is "fix it"

Yes indeed.

> 1st. LIS stands for Linux Integrated Services. (not Long Term
> Support.. where did you get the T? )

Fuzzy vision. Note to self: call an optometrist. Sorry about that
confusion, and thanks for the definition. Googling for "LIS" does not
find what I would have needed either, but the definition did help.

> its integrated into the kernel and allows compatibility between
> Microsoft Hyper-v and Linux virtual machines.

I presume is does something specific, since running fully virtualized
works with all kinds of VM solutions out of the box. Oh well, probably
irrelevant at this point.

> 2nd. kernel 229.7.2.el7.x86_64 = 3.10.0-229.7.2.el7.x86_64.
> as opposed to kernel 3.10.0-327.4.5.el7.x86_64
> Both of them are upgrades to Centos Version 7.2 which has LIS built in
> but the newer kernel version isn't "as" compatible.

I see. Sorry, I've never seen somebody shorthand the kernel version to
just the last few bits.

> since Centos had an issue with newer kernels, I'm looking for the
> versions that are officially supported in SUSE 12 LES (linux enterprise
> server)

SUSE and RedHat build kernels very differently. SUSE has tried to b e bit
more up-to-date with technologies than RHEL, hopefully while maintaining
stability, as that is paramount in the enterprise. As a result, we have
seen things like changing kernel minor releases within a line of products
(SLES 11 moved to the 3.0 kernel) while RHEL did not (still on 2.6 in the
RHEL 6.7 release). Perhaps this is one of the reasons I've never seen
somebody shorthand kernel versions in SUSE-land, since the main version
could change from time to time. Just guessing...

> These are the SUSE kernels I'm talking about
> July-31-2015 3.12.44-52.10.1
> Sep-23-2015 3.12.44-52.18.1
> Oct-13-2015 3.12.48-52.27.1
> Dec-04-2015 3.12.51-52.31.1
> Jan-19-2016 3.12.51-52.34.1
> Jan-22-2016 3.12.51-52.39.1
> Mar-16-2016 3.12.55-52.42.1
>
> we're using 3.12.51-52.31.1. maybe an older version works better but
> which one? I'm hoping I don't have to go down the list and try them
> all.
>
>
> 3rd. Are you a SAN storage admin? maybe that's why you haven't seen this
> before. Doesn't mean it's not an issue.
> we've opened up support with MS and they're looking into it also.

No, definitely I am not, and agreed my knowledge is potentially less than
complete on all topics (or so I am told).

> And while I am aware the problem is related to the virtualization
> program, in the end, I'm just looking for a SUSE/LIS kernel
> compatibility list in parallel to see if we can downgrade kernels and
> find the issue.
> Thats all.

You mentioned SLES 12; have you tried SP1 where the latest fixes reside?

Also, you have probably seen this already:

https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dn873998.aspx

While you're presumably not converting VMs at his point, the part I found
interesting was the inclusion of hyper-v modules in the initrd which would
impact booting, though in that case it would probably cause an infinite
stream of reboots, never fully booting, where you described your problem
as rebooting daily (meaning once per day, which sounds more like a cronjob
than a kernel problem). Also, admittedly, SLES 12 is not mentioned in
there, but the doc is a year old so it may just be outdated. A document
on SLES and Hyper-v support here was nicer:
https://technet.microsoft.com/library/dn531027%28ws.12%29.aspx and it was
updated just a few days ago.

From another thread in the forum (
https://forums.suse.com/showthread.php?6714 ) it would appear that there
are hyper-v RPMs that can be installed which may provide some assistance
with the virtualization host. Do you have those installed, or do you see
them as available (zypper se hyper-v)? The bigger takeaway from that
thread looks like it also had to do with the initrd and kernel modules.

--
Good luck.

If you find this post helpful and are logged into the web interface,
show your appreciation and click on the star below...